Phenom Poker Interview Series: Heads Up With Conscious Poker's Alec Torelli

Heads Up is an interview series by Phenom Poker’s Michael Dunlap, where he sits down with a new guest each week, talking everything poker.

‍For this week's edition of Heads Up, we welcomed Conscious Poker Founder and Phenom Poker Ambassador Alec Torelli. Michael and Alec talked about the poker lifestyle, Alec's ability to branch off and become successful in multiple arenas and we finished off with our five questions, covering Alec's favorite games, his Poker Mount Rushmore and much more.‍

FOCUSING ON WHAT MATTERS MOST

Michael Dunlap: So, I saw on X how you talked about living this year as if it were your last. That's a kind of introspection that comes with age and experience, usually. What was the impetus of that and how is it going so far?

Alec Torelli: During the new year you hear a lot of things and read a lot of things and I just thought it was a really good way to think through prioritization.  And I think a lot of times, at least for me, there's a lot of things that are easy to justify spending time or dedicating energy toward because you maybe feel like you have to do it or you're forced to do it or you feel like something you should do. 

I think it's a really good lens or framework by which you can look through things and easily filter what's really important. So I guess a couple of examples are how you should spend your time. You can only read so many books, you can only focus on so many projects, or work on so many things. Just condensing time to see if this is truly important and that's kind of what I hope to get out of the experiment. 

The other thing is just giving mental energy to things that perhaps wouldn't be as important if you had less time. So you have 50 years or 100 years, it's easy to kind of get lost in the day-to-day things that seem really important but in the grand scheme of things aren't.

But, if you're at the end of your time, then it'd be easier to kind of identify what truly matters. So, that was kind of the hope for it. I guess I’d say it's going okay. I could be a lot better. I probably need to set up some sort of frequent reminder, a way to have that impulse come back to me to remind me more often.  But I think overall with the priorities, I’m very focused on a few things that I'm excited about and just trying to say no a lot more to a lot of other things. I guess if it's not something that I'm truly excited about doing that feels very aligned and very correct, then I just say, “no”. And that's a hard thing to do because for many years I was chasing a lot of different things.

Michael Dunlap: It's very atypical for a poker player, considering the repetition involved. I see you’re an entrepreneur, a coach, a mentor, and then yeah, you also play poker. You're taking more of a multifaceted approach with what you're doing than a typical player. 

What's your ultimate life vision then look like in the next 5 to 10 years? Is it putting all your energy into one bucket? Is it continuing to branch off? Are you going to play poker in 10 years professionally?

Alec Torelli: I don't play enough poker to not love poker.  And I think for me that's been a very important and challenging balance to find. At the beginning of my career, the amount of poker I could play and still love it was basically all of my free time, and I did that for years, many years. But, after maybe around the 10-year mark, it started to wane a bit and I started to have to be more excited and passionate about it. Like you said it is very repetitive after a while. So the same sort of trivial stimulation wasn't that exciting anymore and I felt like I wasn't challenged or growing or trying new things or learning new things.

And so that's always been something I've been mindful of and I definitely learned that the hard way of playing too much and forcing it and then suffering the consequences of that.  So now it's like I only play or I try to only play when I'm very inspired and it's the number one thing I want to do and I have to be sort of unapologetic about it. So I sort of have to allow it to happen.

I feel that disconnecting from poker entirely and having these other ventures really makes me miss poker, and that makes me want to play again! It's a great balance because when I do play poker, and am in the poker phase of my life, I'm not doing anything else. It might last a week or a month, but when I’m there,  I'm dedicated. I’m all in. My days are engineered around trying to put myself in the best performance state possible to win. 

I think when I do play my quality is higher than it would be if I played all the time. I feel my edge perhaps come in part from the fact that I'm always full throttle when I'm playing, and so that makes it really fun and exciting; that every hand I'm really dialed in because I know how precious the opportunities are when I get to play.  I'll definitely play poker a decade from now, but I'll probably be close to where I am today in the sense that, I'll dip in and play, and then I won't play for a few months or it just depends on what other projects are happening in my life.

I love sharing what I’ve learned. I’ve had my blog and was blogging for Cardplayer back in 2007. I'll definitely do more of that. I learn a lot from the process of synthesizing my thoughts and forcing myself to write them down as it brings clarity to my ideas. If that could help other people as well I could publish it.

I currently divide my time between these areas like poker: playing intensely, coaching, the business and content, sharing ideas, and making investments. Poker is great because it brings you around to cool and unique places. So, I try and enjoy the new locations that I get to see instead of just bouncing from one place to another. To take time at each venue to maybe go a couple of days early, stay a couple of days later, or see another city close to the venue that I'm traveling to. That makes the trip feel less like work, and a lot more enjoyable as well.

SPONTANEITY, FREEDOM AND FLEXIBILITY

Michael Dunlap: How do you plan? How do you set up your schedules? Is it I look at a poker tournament and then I do everything else off of that or is it your academy or how do you plan?

Alec Torelli: I don't plan. I don't make decisions more than a few days ahead. I'm very spontaneous. And I mean, there are exceptions to that like the 2023 World Series of Poker, where I knew months ahead of time I wanted to compete in the Main Event. 

But now, for example, I don't know when my next tournament will be. if I'm invited to something like I was while collaborating with the Irish Poker Tour to play, host games, and give a talk, I know that's on my calendar. However, those are few and far between. For the rest, I decide last minute, depending on how I’m feeling. I’ve learned the hard way that I have to be inspired to play or I won’t perform my best.

Even then when I'm at the World Series, I don't have a fixed schedule perhaps outside of the Main. I focus everything on the current tournament I’m playing. If I bust, I’ll see how I feel the day after and what events are going on and decide if I want to play. 

That's how I live my life as well. More than anything, I enjoy my freedom and flexibility.  That's something I've tried to optimize my life around, more than even money. 

I'm not the type of person who's going to do one thing for two years. That would bore me. I like doing one thing all out for some time, which may correlate with a city that I'm in based, or where it's easiest to do that thing. Then, I’ll change it up. If I'm writing a book, being in Italy is the best place because there's the least amount of distractions. I could just sit there and write all day. If I'm engaged in the business and focused on poker, Vegas, New York or Cali is where I want to be. So it depends, but that's a little bit of how I operate.

Michael Dunlap: You're living the dream, but you're not enveloped by it. you still have all that freedom. I envy that. 

FIVE QUESTIONS

Michael Dunlap: What is your favorite poker variant? Do you play carnival games or do you stick with no limit?

Alec Torelli: No limit. I play the other games, but I wouldn't say I'm very competitive. So, for me, yeah, it's kind of a boring answer, but I just like no limit. It’s an endless quest, and I’m still working to master that.

Michael Dunlap: There's nothing wrong with that. Six-max? Full-ring cash games? Tournaments?

Alec Torelli: Good question. Something I think about is, how can I keep poker exciting after 20 years? For most of my career, I played cash games, but I have oscillated back and forth between different variants.  

Back in the day, it was heads-up online. I played 6-max online too. When I played live cash, it was of course full ring. For the past year or two, I've been playing more tournaments because it's hard to find big cash games that are public, and it's also a lot less flexible. There are not as many places in the world where you can do that. 

Tournaments are also more dynamic than cash games in the sense that the strategy changes with every hand, because the stack sizes change, which dictate the strategy, whereas in a cash game, they remain roughly the same. Plus, there’s no ICM nor changing dynamics of the payouts.

The way that tournament dynamics change hand by hand makes each one a unique puzzle, and makes the game very stimulating because you always have to be engaged. Plus, learning to master the nuances and adjust to how much the game has changed is a fun challenge. 

Michael Dunlap: Where is your favorite place to play poker?

Alec Torelli: I love the Wynn Macau. I'm biased because I lived in Macau for 4 years and played thousands of hours there, and so much of my career was built in Macau. But also, the Wynn in Vegas makes me feel like home because the Wynn has this design that makes you feel like you're in the same place no matter where you go. It’s a bit like the Apple Store, Whole Foods or Target in that respect. They all have distinct designs and feels that are relatable no matter which one you go into.

Michael Dunlap: What is your most memorable poker moment? Could be good, could be bad, could be anywhere in between.

Alec Torelli: I've told some stories on my YouTube, a very memorable poker hand playing high stakes in Macau where I was just playing in this big game with this huge VIP and I was all in for my last bullet. I had two tens vs. his jack-seven suited - don’t ask how we got it all in pre - and he flopped a Jack! Somehow, I hit a runner runner flush to double up and then made a massive comeback. 

Most recently, it's my 11th place finish in the Main Event, and getting third this past summer. Both were surreal, but in particular the Main, as it was always a childhood dream of mine to make a deep run. 

Michael Dunlap: Who's on your Mount Rushmore poker players?

Alec Torelli: Oooh, tough question. Doyle Brunson for sure. Poker wouldn't be where it is today without people like him and his influence in the game. I’ve also had great personal experiences with Doyle, as the first person signed at Doyle’s Room back in the day, and we played together in tournaments, and a private game in Bobby’s Room. His impact on the industry speaks for itself.

I think Ivey belongs there too. I’ve played a good amount of poker with him in Macau. He's just one of a kind in his intensity and table presence. It’s something that you can't teach. He's obviously extremely talented and plays all the games very well, which is also very hard to do. 

I think Hellmuth is there as well. What he's done in tournaments makes you rethink what the math says about tournaments, variance, and skill edges. What he’s been able to accomplish in the WSOP in particular is unparalleled.

I recently read his book “Positivity”, which is a great, short read. It showcases his mental process and how he approaches the game and life. It's very clear why he's operating on that level.

Then I’d add Negreanu. He's surfed all the poker eras. He was there before the boom, and he succeeded through the boom and crushed it and now has transitioned to compete at the highest levels in the modern poker era. I’m not sure anyone else has done that like he has. He also plays all the games as well, so he has it all.

He’s also done it while giving away his strategies for free through various mediums for the past few decades, from writing articles I used to read in Cardplayer about hand histories, to sharing in-depth hand reviews from high roller tournaments on YouTube. And he still crushes. 

Michael Dunlap: What is your biggest poker pet peeve?

Alec Torelli: Hmmm, I don't really have something that bothers me that other people do. I suppose I’ve seen it all and at some point, you get a bit desensitized to it.

I suppose my biggest pet peeve would be something that I do that takes away from my own ability to perform. It's probably when I lose focus and make a play that I know I shouldn't have made in a tournament, and it costs me a big part or all of my stack, or in a cash game where I undo the work of the whole session. It’s especially tilting that often times I know I had no business being there to begin with; it’s like I know better but sometimes I just don’t execute, and that’s really hard to deal with. I guess it’s a bit of a double edge sword though, the fact that you can never quite be perfect, and there’s always something you can do to improve. That’s what makes poker such a great game. There are just so many levels to it. 

Note: Commentary has been edited for clarity. Follow Michael Dunlap (@DunlapSports) and Alec Torelli (@AlecTorelli) on X.

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